An Opportunity for McCain-Palin

Lisa:

Obama's record does not support his claim that he is the post-partisan candidate. John McCain's does

This is one of the reasons as an Independant I am supporting John McCain.

-ah, but lest you forget the independent voters who will determine this election want BI-PARTISANSHIP...something that Speaker Pelosi is painfully (and I do mean PAINFULLY) unaware of....Pelosi is undermining Obama's message that he as the dem nominee for President is the post-partisan candidate. Obama's record does not support his claim that he is the post-partisan candidate. John McCain's does.

Pelosi isn't running for office.
McCain is a repub that votes in line with Bush.

Nuff said.

Actually Pelosi is running. They run every 2 years in the House. :-) She just believes she doesn't have any serious competition coming from her liberal district.

And Obama is just another left wing liberal in lock step (97%) with his party. He is atleast consistent in always opposing Republicans. How is that bipartisan? He doesn't know how to go against the grain and work with the other party because he is too busy opposing them.

For the record: Pelosi is a joke. Harry Reid is the punchline.

Feel better?

Now, on to the substance.

The nation is in big trouble... the economy is tanking... the next Depression is knocking on the door.

McCain calls himself a 'maverick', as if he is some kind of outsider who will clean up Washington. Give me a righteous break. Fine lot of cleaning he's done in 26 years.

Stands up to his own party, you say? Not in recent years. More like bending over for his party. Witness his willingness to go along with a VP pick that embarasses him so much that he's forced to do joint interviews just to keep her from saying anything stupid, and he can't even do that effectively.

McCain has a record of bi-partisanship... sometimes. So does Obama (ask Dick Lugar). Publicly, every politician thumps his chest for his party, then goes into the cloakroom and chats nice with anybody, no matter what party tag they wear.

McCain couldn't even convince 133 members of his own party to vote for the bail-out. They're all running scared in their home districts, afraid that they won't get a golden ticket that sends them back to their cushy jobs for another two years.

The nation has been handed a mess... delivered by a lame-duck POTUS who really doesn't care, since he's got his own massive nest egg sitting comfortably on its nest at the 'ranch'. The party that currently holds the White House is responsible for the de-regulation that allowed greedy CEOs to go too far. The voters will remember that in November, and will increase the D-to-R ratio in Congress... and, hopefully, return John McCain to the Senate come next January.

We as a nation deserve much better than the status quo. Like it or not, McCain is no better than Bush. In some ways, he's worse... though I never thought that was possible.

RE: 2.6
Then google them.
Thank you. No Thank you.
/sarcasm.

Regardless of Obama, who I made no reference to. Just because you throw
out the words change and maverick in a year period you can't wipe away
years of party affiliation. And sadly Palin is already nominated which
IMHO there not could but SHOULD have been someone better in her place. And any McCain flag toting
American should see that too. Blind party affiliation and support won't
do either of us any good.

Snotrag
I agree that McCain is a complete joke....they all are. Obama "wait and see" "monitoring" whatever you want to call it is also a joke. Pelosi is a national disaster. The list goes on and on.....I don't believe that this country has one true leader out there. I'm afraid I'm going to wake up one day soon and find out I'm now living in China.

You are very angry!

lisaed (#2.9)...

The good folks at Bloomberg have an interesting argument.

Here's my theory:

Give a child a one pound bag of M&Ms. Tell him to eat only three pieces. Don't watch him; don't count how many he eats. In short order, he gets sick. Could you have prevented this? Maybe if you had regulated the number he was allowed to eat -- like a good parent should -- he would be happy and you wouldn't have a mess to clean up on the living room carpet.

@2.9...
An op-ed piece from Peter Wallison of AEI, the right wing think tank? Really? That hardly passes as truth. In his piece, he asserts that none of the deregulation had to do with the financial sector. I counter this with the voluntary regulation option of investment banks in which Cox himself admitted was failed from the onset, and from poor regulation of short selling and credit default swaps. All these things are very deep in the financial sector. As well as the Gramm-Leach-Bliley act which gives the S.E.C. the authority to regulate the securities and brokerage operations of the investment banks, but not their holding companies, therefor effectively ending regulations that were set in place after the Great Depression.

Maybe you should lay off that right wing kool aid.

christy....is there a reason I shouldn't be angry? Of course I'm angry. The non-existent leadership I elected has done nothing but let me down over and over with absolutely no end in sight. They are filled with excuses when the need for solutions coulnd't be more important. Watching Pelosi's speech yesterday made me physically ill and the follow up by Barney Frank wasn't any better.

Blame blame blame, it's the name of the game.

And the next contestant is....

Lazy American citizens, of which I fully include myself.

Obama's record does not support his claim that he is the post-partisan candidate. John McCain's does.

Agreed, Lisaed.

post-partisan

The Pub Amen Corner is here today in full voice. But I'm certain the irony escapes you.

John McCain Post Partisan???

Damn I wish you could hear my laughter.

You guys are great!

Post-partisan?

Next you'll call him a Post-GreedHead.

Good stuff

Oh, and it had nothing to do with McCain's partisan trick of insinuating himself into the bailout debate that he neither understood nor could influence?

Glad you clarified that for me.

Shaun:

You changed your name????

You didn't even let me know. I'm glad I figured it out!

How about some perspective here. Newt Ginrich was Hosue Speaker correct? Let us just take a trip down memory lane back to the time when he was young and non-partisan. Those were that days that we ought to model ourselves upon, right?

McCain is a repub that votes in line with Bush

And Obama voted in linewith his party and .......like the last week in a middle of a financial crisis: Present.

Obama is going to win and we will see in four years how much can he do passing for his nominees and pet projets.

You can only give god answers to god questions.

?

??

(I didn't follow that, either.)

When Sarah Palin is our next Vice President and assisting President McCain in making executive decisions for our country

That sounds like a horror movie.

We'd be screwed. How the F do you think that woman from Alaska should be making decisions for this country? She's a hollow marketing ploy without a leg to stand on. She's a poster child for wal-mart America. NO NO NO NO NO NO NO.

Make sure that you include McCain in the "no executive experience" camp as well lisaed.

GOVERNOR of ALASKA

Oh my bad. By all means, let's nominate her for Vice Pres. of the United States.

That question from Katie Couric told us NOTHING about what kind of Vice President Governor Palin would be.

Actually, lisaed... it tells us that Palin was so ambitious that she was willing to accept the VP nomination no matter who headed the ticket. She couldn't offer even one credible response to a simple question about the 'reform' history of her running mate. If Palin and McCain are to work together, shouldn't she know something basic about his record?

And she does.

Except for when people ask her about it in public right?

babin,
You did not say

walmart america

in disdain, did you? (reference 3.4) You know those are the votes they're all looking for right now don't you? I still can't believe you said that...

And sadly they elect our officials. Snot running down their face, Cheetos on their sweat pants, Nascar mullet in tow...Palin in their cheers.

God I sound like an elitist. Oh my.

GED's across America have their Joan of Arc. Scream "America" and "Freedom" 5 times and she'll appear before you!

...is that enough?

Snot running down their face

Should I be offended?

;-)

Was that you in front of me at Wal-Mart with 12 kids at 11pm last night? I keyed your car. We're even ;)

God I sound like an elitist.

I concur with your assessment of your statement.

lisaed (#3.9)...

And she does.

So you say... but her comments (or lack thereof) prove you wrong.

We can't read her mind... so we can only go by her extremely limited appearances.

Palin appears to have no idea what John McCain stands for.

I know more about John McCain's record than she does. Maybe Rove should have picked me! (I look nothing like Tina Fey, so automatically I bring less embarassment to the ticket.)

Well Juno (3.15), shame on me for wanting our country to evolve. We have
enough white trash running around, we don't need it in Washington.

I'll buy you a copy of the movie Idiocracy. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idiocracy

I doubt you know what the VP does on a daily basis.

3.12 Sneer all you want dear, that does not change where the power lies. Walmart America repairs your car, cleans your house and prays for your mortal soul. Did I mention they give their sons and daughters in service to defend your freedom to be an elitist snob?

Actually I live in the middle of it and love our normal americans - what I dislike is people that can't take care of themselves and don't try to better themselves.

Hard working americans not born into money that want to educate themselves and give their kids a better chance should be rewarded with tax cuts and not have to be back broken for the upper 1% OR the lazy neighbor that's lowering his property value.

The sneering is justified by the lazy and voluntarily ignorant american.

lisaed (#3.18)...

Saddleback? That's off-topic.

Perhaps we can continue that discussion in a more appropriate thread.

Babin:

Where, pray-tell, is that all-inclusive attitude that champions the cause of all persons downtrodden or oppressed?

3.23: Alaska?

lisaed (#3.24)... OK, it's your ball and you want to play.

Here's my take on Saddleback: The invitation was one that neither candidate could ignore, and both performed as expected.

Senator Obama could have answered a few questions better (the abortion issue is delicate, and no one answer would appease the pro-life crowd). He seemed uncomfortable and was not as well-prepared for the types of questions, resulting in some misstatements.

Senator McCain devolved in the forum, resorting to the type of answers I expect from a lesser man. (He referenced the failure of his first message in a manner than could lead one to believe that his first wife was at fault, rather than choosing to man-up and admit that he was guilty of adulterous behavior for many years.)

The Saddleback crowd was pro-McCain for the most part... and he was able to be coached by his handlers who had easy access to Obama's responses. (Had the order been reversed, I'm sure we would be saying the same... so don't bother with that 'cone of silence' nonsense.)

----------
Regarding your quote:

his highness

I would consider that a bit beneath you. Is name-calling appropriate? I will not lower myself to that type of attack upon John McCain or Sarah Palin... and I would prefer you choose a higher road as well.

And so it goes... ttfn.

...

Maybe this helps:

http://schnoo.newsvine.com/_news/2008/09/30/1934793-nude-painting-of-palin-big-hit-in-the-windy-city?last=1222795923#last_1

I don't get it all the fears for this woman that is not prepared to be V.P. if Obama closed the deal already.

I find that stupid questions, while they may throw you off at first, can be easily answered if you know what you're talking about. Also, I don't agree with you that Couric's questions were stupid in any way. They were completely relevant.

Here is an Example:
---We know already you have not trawled the world,
---We also know you had no opportunity to meet with foreign leaders?
"What are your Foreign Politics experiences Governor?
Now, that is what I call a stupid question!
Some good questions:
How are you going to address the foreign politics as a VP?
What is your fundamental believes of the position of our country in the world?
What role shall we take on foreign politics?

---We know already you have not trawled the world,
---We also know you had no opportunity to meet with foreign leaders?
"What are your Foreign Politics experiences Governor?

= "I have none."

My bias is against Palin not being the best choice for VP.

I could give a "rat's patoot" about her approval rating in Alaska. The more you beat her "Outside Washington" experience drum the less that sparsely populated village-state holds water.

Most popular governor based on Alaska's approval rating = VP.

Wow. That's laughable.

I tell you what. I'm going to move to a small village in the Amazon, get a 90% approval rating, then run for VP in Venezuela. Based on your logic I should get full support. Watch out Chavez. I'm the most popular governor in your least populous per area region. BAM!! (Alaska is the least densely populated state, at 1.1 people per square mile (0.42/km²), with the next state, Wyoming, at 5.1 per square mile (1.97/km²).)

You should look up the number of votes that got her in office. You could count them yourself.

The point is she was elected mayor with 1100 votes, ran against 5 opponents for governor (splitting the vote getting her in, luckily for her) and in a state of over 600000, Palin's one governor's race netted her slightly less than 115000 votes.

They could be driven by the Lord almighty himself, but they still don't amount to a hill of beans in comparison with Washington politics.

Beverly hillbillies baby.

I see your POV but from what I've seen of Palin and her background I don't buy it. I still see her as a cheap pick to move votes for demographic reasons as a timing and strategic move for McCain's run. No real focus on how it would prove beneficial for the country if she actually made it to office. Which is why she is bottled up instead of let to speak freely about her mighty wisdom for the better of mindkind. Makes me wish Gore was running around in her spot at least.

Ok, just got here and have been reviewing the posts. My turn...

lisaed 4.4...

Yes, I believe most governors have ample opportunity to interact with foreign leaders and to influence foreign policy. Most states have industries that are symbiotic with industries in other countries and those governors frequently take trips to those other countries to make deals on trade issues. It would be naive of anyone to think that governors can't influence policy.

MOST governors, that is. Palin has not immersed herself in those issues. If she had, those meetings with foreign delegates would have been trumpeted by the Repubs already.

And if you choose to define "executive experience" as having run a city or a state and then use that experience as proof Palin is more qualified than Obama and Biden, you have that right using that argument. But that means that Palin has more executive experience than McCain and therefore is more qualified to be President than the other three. Using your logic....

As for Palin's 80% approval rating, perhaps it stems from the fact that Alaska gives every man, woman and child who are legal residents of Alaska a check for over two thousand dollars every year. And that Palin negotiated another twelve hundred dollars from the oil companies to bump this figure up. I think I'd be happy with my governor if he got me free money, too.

lisaed 4.6

Ok, I'll take a stab at the Acorn problem. Do you actually know what Acorn does to get in trouble? They hire people off the street to register people to vote. Most of these part-timers are down on their luck and need the money. And most of these people do a good job. The suits alleging voter fraud happen when a few of those part-timers don't do the job right and phone it in. They get paid for each voter registered so it is much easier to take names from the phone book or make up the names and then get paid when they turn in the registration forms. I wish Acorn would not allow this because it obviously has hurt them, but let's also remember that the majority of new voters registered by Acorn are valid. Everybody wants to remember the few bad ones not the good ones.

Earlier today, I Googled Acorn/voter fraud and read over two dozen of the postings. Most of the suits against Acorn show in most instances that only a few people registered people incorrectly. Only in one case was there anything close to being called massive voter fraud and that was when 8 people got together and sat in a library filling out names from a phone book. If you want to denigrate Acorn, that's up to you. But they do great work for the downtrodden when no one else cares a whit.

As for actual voter fraud where someone actually votes twice or votes in place of a dead person or whatever scenario, it is extremely rare. Here in my state where voter fraud was a cause celebre a couple of years ago, the state Repub admin tried desperately to use alleged voter fraud to push through a voter ID bill in the house. For all the talk about how the system is being abused or played (by Dems no less), they could not find one instance of actual voter fraud. NOT ONE. Sure, they found some instances of poor registration drives and other problems that need to be fixed, but not one dead person voted here. Voter fraud is a specious argument across the nation.

By the way, although I am decidedly for Obama/Biden, you will not find me making fun of someone's heritage or name or party affiliation here. If you want respect, show respect.

Your turn...

I tell you what. I'm going to move to a small village in the Amazon, get a 90% approval rating, then run for VP in Venezuela

Well, not to much brains to be Hugo and et al.

The reason is the democrats want to play politics with the economic stability of this country.

I think you got it in one, jazzman.

jazz

speaking of a few measly votes....

Care to explain why only four of the nineteen Texas Republicans voted for this bill? And that was after George W. Bush called each of them individually and pleaded for their votes.

Never mind, I think I just explained it.

jazz-

exactly! The dem leadership, if you can call it leadership, doesn't really care about passing meaningful legislation that truly helps the economy and the taxpayers. They (particularly Pelosi) only care about retaining their majority and power. Pelosi knew full well what she was doing and how it would be received when she gave that speech on the House floor.

I am firmly convinced Nancy Pelosi's only objective is to keep her position as Speaker of the House; I only hope the voters are wise enough to vote the dems out of the majority and take that away from her.

I seriously doubt that his was playing politics with the US economy. Politicians want things to improve while they're in office, not deteriorate. Pelosi was one of the major proponents of this bill and while I agree she was better off keeping her mouth shut, to claim that she did it purposely so that the bill would fail is baseless.

Politicians want things to improve while they're in office, not deteriorate.

That is a logical assessment, Mark, and I would be inclined to believe it, but for the fact that in the two years Nancy Pelosi and the democrats have had control, they have not done anything to improve our country. We've had partisan bickering and laying the blame solely at the feet of either Bush or the republicans in congress. I've not seen solutions to the problems that are supposedly the fault of the republicans having held congress during Bush's tenure. The dems were elected the majority in 2006 because the american people were sick and tired of the BS the GOP was giving them- and the dems have given them more of the same. I will laugh, cry and shout for joy should they lose their hold on congress in November.

Jazzman,

60% of Democrats voted for the bill. They did their share. If 60%..no, 50%...no, 40% of the Repubs had voted for the bill, it would have passed.

McCain could not deliver ONE Repub Congressman from Arizona to vote yes on the bill.

President Bush could only deliver 4 of the Repub Congressmen from Texas to vote yes.

Just whose fault is this again?

Saint Lou

Stop confusing the issue with facts.

60% of Democrats voted for the bill. They did their share. If 60%..no, 50%...no, 40% of the Repubs had voted for the bill, it would have passed.

If the bill was so great why didn't more Democrats vote for it?

I actually hope that she does well. If there's ANY chance she could wind up being VP, or even *gasp* President, I really don't want someone who's clearly not qualified running the show.

That's another point. McCain's campaign decided on Palin, NOT McCain. Since then, they basically have hidden her from the press. Why? She is now in debate camp with the McCain people......just a couple of days before the debate. Why? The answers to these questions seem obvious to me, and very hard for McCain supporters to understand. Palin was chosen because she's a woman, and it was obviously a political move just to hopefully win votes from the upset Clinton voters. Country First my arse. She wasn't vetted. And now they're scrambling to get her prepared for the debates. (As if they were surprised to find out she had to debate.)

What I don't understand is how women can be supportive of her when she wants to throw out Roe vs. Wade. How hypocritical is it of her to want to do that? Her daughter sure has a choice. But she wants to make sure that no one else's daughters have the choice. If I were a woman who was raped and impregnated I sure as hell wouldn't want to keep that baby. I can't fathom how ANY woman would be ok with that.

Ummmm, I guess I'm done with this particular rant.

Re: Roe v Wade:

Constitutional balance would be restored by the reversal of Roe v. Wade, returning the abortion question to the individual states. The difficult issue of abortion should not be decided by judicial fiat.

Per McCain/Palin website.

This matters to me. For instance, I would choose to raise my children in a state that valued life before birth.

Currently, since I abhor states laws that allow "non-parental consent" abortions, and won't live in one of them, given that I have a choice to go to another.

I believe the "rape or incest" argument is a scare tactic used to keep this ruling in place.

Annoyed,

Juno's answer is pretty much it in a nutshell, for those of us who are pro-life. But it's further than that, for me at least, because being a conservative I do believe in less federal government oversight, regulation, intervention, etc... and more power given to the local and state governments. That's the political portion of my stance on Roe v. Wade. There is also a spiritual component, which is fundamentally more important, but that's for each person to decide for themselves.

Lisa: The record is being played all over the place, with scratches galore, so people are hearing static in place of the truth.

Alexandra: I agree, I don't "just" look at one issue. All you have listed is also on my radar. But I felt this one needed addressing since this was what anti-Palin women keep bring up as an unbelief in any woman supporting her.

Well, sadly, I know one who is voting for McCain simply because they
believe Obama is Muslim. Two actually. Do some survey's in the South,
you'll find a few hundred more.

I agree with annoyed. McCain's handlers chose Palin, not the candidate. Look back at the rally where he introduced her to the crowd. He had to look down at his 3x5 card to get her name right as he said it. Kinda shows he wasn't that familiar with it, doncha think?

And yes, I believe she was chosen mostly to get the woman vote. Wrong on so many levels. Tons of people out there are one-issue voters and for women, abortion is usually it. Palin was chosen because of her gender mostly, but her right-to-life stance, too. Odd, isn't it, that a woman who was pregnant when she got married and her daughter is pregnant and unwed feels that abstinence is the best way? Hubris if you ask me.

I believe abortion should be safe, legal and extremely rare so don't start piling on me. I just despise hypocrisy.

Juno -

You mention the word "choice" in your post. You say you move to states without non-parental consent abortion laws by choice. And yet, you want women to not have a choice.

Whether abortion is legal or not, that still leaves choice. If you do not believe in it, do not have one. I am always very concerned about the concept that we need less government but then we support laws that eliminate people's choices.

If you believe in freedom why not keep laws concerning religious and morality out of our lives so we can make decisions based on our personal points of view?

If you believe in freedom why not keep laws concerning religious and morality out of our lives so we can make decisions based on our personal points of view?

Most of our laws are based on religious/morality concerns. Have you not noticed that?

I want to see Sarah Palin turned loose so that she can hang herself with her own rope and plant both of her feet in her mouth

Well, Sarah Palin is an excellent match for the lack of tact of Joseph Biden.

I don't worry about Governor Palin she will be ready by 2012.

I wonder how will be the feeling of Hillary to see Obama back in the Senate and Obama seeing Hillary?

Juno -You mention the word "choice" in your post. You say you move to states without non-parental consent abortion laws by choice. And yet, you want women to not have a choice.

Indeed. And I believe states should have the choice to make laws that are reflective of those who live in them.

"Choice" is a co-opted word for those who want this to be about something that it is not . . . freedom. Life, is the first of our National trifecta and you would take it from the most venerable and completely innocent.

"present" was a common vote in that state from republicans and democrats depending on who was in power in an attempt to curb the motion. You need to read up on that report in greater detail.

"present" was a common vote in that state from republicans and democrats depending on who was in power in an attempt to curb the motion

So Obama represents "change"? Or is it in reality more of the O'same?

Naw, I get it, and think it's funny.

But thanks.

So Obama represents "change"? Or is it in reality more of the O'same?

So Obama gets in office and runs the same game that Bush has? Sure, that's logical.

So Obama gets in office and runs the same game that Bush has? Sure, that's logical

Why not, apparently he did in Chicago.

Has anyone ever asked Biden how he qualifies been the president?

Well, English as a second language, he isn't running for Pres.

Can you argue that he is less qualified than Palin for VP?
- doubtful.

9.1 Woohoo.... And Babin runs wild with his rapier wit. Did you take a Mean Pill this morning? That was dangerously close to a slur. No, I take that back, it was a slur. I take issue with your manner sir.

Two wrongs don't make a right and whatever short comings Biden has they don't equate into Palin being the right choice for VP. Sure, argue that they both are lame ducks, but you can't say his past failed run for office predicts her a successful decision maker for this country. Unless you are a lesser of two evils person. That sounds like settling to me.

Yes mother.

I guess you didn't have a real comment on my 9.4

I wasn't trying to, only commenting on the lackluster choice that is Palin. Make up your own mind about Biden. Nevermind, you already have.

This really isn't going anywhere. Our votes will cancel out. NV is pretty liberal all in all. Good luck. The old money and top 1% salutes your efforts.

babin

Well, English as a second language,

FYI, a quick personal profile:
Actually, I speak 4 Languages.
And have visited 67 countries (on 4 continents)
And are 2 millions mile club member on UA. (You know the people who get the best seats on the airplanes).
Maybe, I am more qualified the Biden.

You have my vote. And a gold star....and a cookie.

BOR...you got my vote. (hope you don't lose all those UA miles, though).

ElliePhat
FYI,
Those are actual miles, (not counting bonuses).
And you keep your status for life.
Thank you for your vote.

babin
With the ATT, you can access Internet anywhere in the world, in the remotest corners of it.
(you have seen the advertisement)?
You can even talk about your world experience from browsing the web.
Thank you for your vote,

BOR, come across to the OneWorld Alliance. The grass is much greener over here :)

What's the internet?

BOR #9
No one asks, because no one cares. He was a regretful choice for VP and Obama knows it. He thought he was playing it safe, when his whole party knows he should have picked Hillary. Now they are upset, and all they can do is pick apart Palin by saying that she's not qualified or a good choice. If she's such a bad choice, why all the noise? Why not just let McCain/Palin fail? Cause they're scared.

NObama 2008!!

lisaed, re: 9.2

That's it? That's the best you got against Biden? That he used a paragraph in a speech he didn't attribute over 30 years ago? You can't find anything better than that in 30 years? Wow. That's lame.

And to say he tanked in the primary because he didn't get one delegate is pretty disingenuous because just how many delegates did Palin get? Oh, that's right. She didn't think she had the guts or wherewithal to run for President in her party's primaries. Maybe, just maybe, she didn't think she was qualified. Just a guess.

Oh, I forgot something, lisaed re: 9.2

You made the comment about John Edwards being the National Enquirer's posterboy. I'm sure to his everlasting shame he regrets his sins, especially when they are plastered across supermarkets across America.

A couple of things to say about that though. I seem to recall something about casting stones so if you want your politicians to be squeaky clean, you'd better dump both McCain (an admitted adulterer several times over) and Palin (the current National Enquirer poster girl).

Be careful what you wish for.

If you bash Biden for not winning in the primaries, you must think that Palin would have done better if she ran for President.

Biden was accused of plagiarising a speech a while back. Wow. Did you watch the interview with Palin by Charles Gibson? He asked her about her comments about the Iraq War being a holy war and played the video. She said she was "quoting" Abraham Lincoln whose actual quotes didn't align with hers whatsoever. I think I would prefer a word-for-word copy of someone else's speech than some twisted, illogical contrivance in an attempt to make words more palatable. And, as was mentioned, I don't think you want to start in on character issues given McCain's history with cheating on his wife and the Keating S&L scandal. And, I for one, have never brought any of those issues to these debates because they are not nearly as important as the issues. But, since you insist to bring it up...

Biden was "shot at" while in the Green Zone

Maybe Sarah could ask the Senator how happened with details.

They are all playing politics with this one. You and I both know Pelosi could have writen a much more congenial speech.

Frankly, I think it was a "tit for tat" . McCain did the grandstanding thing and put Obama on the ropes regarding "the crisis" if he went along he was a follower, if he resisted he was unamerican. Pelosi's speech did this too, if the republicans buckled, they had to concede to the democrats, if they resisted the Democrats put point a finger at the RNC for not having clear leadership.

Yep, you're right. All we have in government are politicians, not leaders.

I'm with studius on this one. Pelosi couldn't resist a jab at Bush (she knew it would be played on air and would play well with her constituency) but I bet she didn't forsee the (alleged) consequences.

Isn't she just a tulip! So insightful and well spoken!

I made a site with her face airbushed on sweatshirts. Only $25.

www.palinpitbullshirtsforsoccermoms.com

Get one MsHooterville and support our lady!!!!

Actually I really don't like her choices either if that makes you feel
better. I think she's clogged up the system for the wrong reasons.
Hopefully she'll be replaced as well (AS WELL).

holy crap, in reading your many posts, babin, I did not think it would happen, but I actually agree with you in 11.3! In her two years as Speaker of the House, all I've heard from her is how everything is the Republicans fault. I've not heard any true solutions, I've not seen any meaningful legislation to correct the "horrible things" the other side of the isle has done to this country, as she asserts. I hope she gets dethroned.

11.4 - well for some reason when you think Palin isn't suited for a
role in D.C. people automatically assume you are all on board with
Obama, Biden, Pelosi..and the Donkey for that matter.

Sure it's an easy counter arguement but it doesn't really provide evidence of why standing alone she'd be #1 for VP.

babin,

it wasnt so much your differing view from mine on Palin, it was also how you delivered. but, to each his own :)

Actually I think that letting her be herself would be the smartest thing for the RNC to do.
Sarah Palin probably isn't as incompetent as made out to be, but she is on this pinpoint of control. She has been controlled since her first gaffe and they have only made her look worse. I really don't blame her in these last few weeks, but I do blame the "handling" of her, the RNC has shown they don't trust her thoughts, they have held her up as the quintessential woman and then men controlled her every move, how's that for sexism at it's finest?
I really think the bulk of the RNC has no idea what to do with the modern woman but they want everyone to think they have their mind made up and are the party of today. Sorry, their behavior seems more like he party of the 50's

Damn, once again I'm with Stud. The Repubs send such mixed messages about their "wimmenfolk." (That was said with tongue in cheek.)

Keep it up, stud.

Odds are the entire GOP positioned her there to swing demographic votes regardless of her experience and Leiberman was McCain's initial choice.

McCain should have just followed his heart and taken his chances on Joe. It woudln't have made much of a difference in the long run. Too bad John never learned his lesson that when you crawl up the GOP's hiney, you tend to lose.

Instead he impulsively picks someone he "vetted" about as carefully as Dan Gallagher vetted Alex Forrest in "Fatal Attraction."

Yeah, and thank goodness about 6 much more qualified people turned him down first.

"McCain should have just followed his heart and taken his chances on Joe."

That would've certainly been the maverick choice and would have shown McCain's willingness to take on his own party. Instead he picked George Bush with lipstick — more of the same.

I agree with half of your premise. Yep, democracy in action and three cheers for that! But, no, it was also a failure of leadership. McCain showed none, Bush was ineffective, Obama could have done more, Gingrich was sabotaging things behind the scenes....all in all, a resounding debacle for all concerned. Shame on everyone.

Wasn't McCain kicked out after being told to shut his mouth on the issue. They made it look like the old man just got in the way. Then he 'Guided the decisions by phone' RIIGGHT! :(

He comes across as a puppet and a sell out that's changed his game since last time he ran to do the GOP bidding. Last chance, might as well right?

I have been wondering how many people noticed Obama's non-leader role. What a sham.

lisaed---McCain had to take a big political risk because he was (and still is) lagging in the polls. Obama had to stay out of the mess so as not to take a political risk because he wasn't (and still isn't) lagging in the polls. It is the same thing. Political posturing for political gain, plain and simple. Obama is no better than McCain.

".....may have cost him the election" you are right. Everything that McCain and Obama have done is for election purposes only, not the good of the country.

McCain took a big risk Grandstanding with the appearence of helping in a crisis, he knew that he was not on any of the committees involved, and he called on Bush to call and executive level meeting to include Obama so that A) it looked like he was involved and B) had them invite Obama so nobody could say he was partisan about it. John McCain's addition to this "crisis" was ZERO, in this meeting Obama saw right through it and purposely asked McCain his thoughts, McCain's answer was that he would go along with what his party wanted. For all McCain's fluff about "RUSHING" to Washington he left a few details out (Since D.C. is a 30 minute flight from NYC) was that he wasn't leaving until he got face time with Katie couric, and then speak at a Bill Clinton hosted affair because unlike Bush, Clinton is well respected by world leaders and McCain knew that world leaders would be there he waned some self serving face time there too. In the meantime he tells David Letterman he was "RUSHING" off to D.C. and Letterman finds out he's getting his makeup put on at NBC when he said he was on a plane to D.C.

He still lied, he could have just said to CBS "Look I have to get on and do a news interview, sorry I feel it would be inappropriate to do the show"

Screw Letterman.

Sounds like Letterman's jokes got to you.

Then you missed how funny he was last week. He was on fire.

"Senator McCain, can I give you a ride to the airport?"

Another McCain stunt blown to hell.

lisa, hon

Dave's "funny" lines did much to undercut the message of the alleged mission that McCain was off to save 'Merica....nothing would stop him....the Maverick is here...here I come to save the day.

Didn't really save it, now did he? Maybe even screwed things up with his grandstanding. Not that I'd expect you to ever see it that way, of course.

Can I point the finger at someone on the other side of the aisle now?

Good job.

until Nancy "screwed things up with her grandstanding."

So, the words of the Nancy Pelosi carry more weight with Republican House members than do the pleadings of their own president and minority leader?

Y'all are funny.

Same thing, political posturing, you're right if Pelosi did not say what she said it would have swung.

But she did and the RNC said they would rather screw the vote and possibly the economy than give in to that %^$#&. So, again we have the same problem, posturing on both sides, this time it's the republicans that got caught in a squeeze. I know it's both sides doing it, but, if McCain hadn't tried to railroad Obama with his stunt we'd be arguing about other things...

Biden, Obama & McCain will be back in Washingto to vote. This time Obama can't vote Present.

What delusional folks on this thread Pelosi speech didn't change a vote, any Republican who says his vote was changed because his feelings were hurt you need to loose him and put a new guy in his place,

And people who call themselves charming and conservative are rarely either one.

;)

You guys feel better now? What does the personal dig do for you exactly? Just curious.

We wanted to see you comment.

You are kinda cute, when you aren't being mean.

Well on such a thread it's kind of hard not to be coarse.

Are the elections over yet?

It wasn't an insult, just an observation. Looks like a highly accurate observation at that, since you decided to put the shoe on.

It was/is an insult, MsHooter.

And as such, a violation of CoH.

Lisa is well within her right to delete it.

Come on girls, play nice.

This is actually really funny out of context:

It was/is an insult, MsHooter.

Hard to take this stuff serious most of the time.

Okay, I'll go away. You can have your little party with only people who think you're charming.

That's probably a good idea, seeing as how you're above the rest of us common folks.

seeing as how you're above the rest of us common folks

We're just sitting here still bitterly clinging to our guns and religion, it's too much for the self-appointed intellectual masters to handle.

So I guess it's important to point out the following:

Palin has promoted oil and natural gas resource exploration in Alaska, including in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge (ANWR),[77] and initiated a lawsuit over the federal listing of the polar bear[192] and Cook Inlet beluga whale as endangered species.[193]

On global warming, Palin said that "a changing environment will affect Alaska more than any other state, because of our location. I'm not one though who would attribute it to being man-made."[194] She later said that "man's activities certainly can be contributing to the issue" and that "John McCain and I agree that we gotta do something about it."[84][194][195]

Babin
Are you trying to ignore the FACTS, by changing the subject?
Let me make it simple for you:
Charles Gibson;
Is to apologize to Palin on the topic of global warming.
He was wrong and she was right, and she deserves a public apology.

I thought I just posted FACTS.

Babin,
on the Topics, on the Topics,
You are obviously trying to avoid the discussion on it., buy listing non related stuff.
Does that mean you agree that Palin was right on the Global warming????

babin
Geography one on one.
Alaska is the US state closest to Arctic.
Again Palin was right on the global warming influence.

You're right. It is Bush's fault. Good job.

Sorry Susan I don't buy that, i know it looks great on paper but it's not historically correct. As an equipment dealer in those times i saw this coming before 2006, actually 2004. Property prices were going stupidly high here in Florida, people were buying way too much and buying as much as they could be loaned instead of living within their means they kept looking at it as a short term investment. Then when common sense prevailed and these people, and so many of them, could not pay for their "investment" the dominoes started to fall. Less property being bought because people were in them for outrageous money, development slowed because people could not sell their homes and were stuck in them, contractors stopped buying equipment and could not meet their loans because no development money coming in, the bank repos the equipment but can't sell it because all the contractors have the same problem......and so on.

I also see how so many uninelligent(nothing pointed, just hear enough on his newsvine) people want to blame the welfare momma or the minority, nothing could be further from the truth, sure we'd love to be angry at the one that got a great deal from the government, but this just isn't so. i was watching hundreds if not thousands of people buying acreage they had no business owning because they saw dollar signs and had no idea what to do with the property. In contrast I saw "minorities" who were accustomed to scraping by utilize their property and make it work for them. I grew up in a poor family, that was my first lesson. Now, there are some pretty stable Spanish and black, and Asian families in central florida that are not only large property owners, they are producers of economy.

And on another note Susan, there was a bill passed that deregulated the banking industry, this had a two fold effect, banks could now sell insurance as well as financial services

A) banks started getting in to not only consumer insurance services but the rather tricky market of hedging on mortgages and essentially betting what was going to fall, It was actually this market of insurers that fell first (AIG)

B) The deregulation started a flood of predatoory practices tha were legal but less ethical people used these laxed rules to seel the moon to prospective buyers and then sell the mortgage to Fannie and Freddie, hence F & F's fall.

Now comes the hard pill to swallow.... This was called the Gramm/Leach/bilaley act. It was passed through the senate as a "veto proof" bill because of the support it got. Clinton signed it and acually thought it was a good idea, he accepts that responsibility.

BUT.....this bill was constructed and pushed by none other than Gramm and McCain. It passed the senate with 54 vote yes (all republican) to 44 votes no ( all democrat and independents)

Now, after all this and I'm sure you heard it, McCain pushed for a more regulatory stance in 2005 and was defeated, this is true, what is also true is economists from everywhere already agreed the damage was done, and this would not have helped. Now McCain is saying "I'm the regulation guy" well, NOW maybe...

My god the number of morons with internet access is just way too high.
Maybe it's a good thing that Comcast is going to enforce that 250GB/month usage limit.

No, but I believe that a VP choice is just as important as a president choice, there have been many presidents who didn't finish their term and we have to be sure that the second in command is qualified and up for the job. I wouldn't vote for McCain for a few reasons, one is the right to choose. I believe all women should have the right to choose what happens to their bodies. I want equal pay for equal work and I want a Supreme Court that isn't controlled by the right and would take Roe. v Wade off the books. I was never for the war in Iraq and admire Obama for making the right call when it was politically unpopular. I am want more clean energy, and less war. I want someone who respects all people and can look them in the eye and tell the truth.

Mommy Monica: Since you are very much into the second in command being qualified to run the country, I'm curious to know how do you see Obama qualified as first in command? As an Independant I am yet to see anything qualfiy him other than a handful of years in congress. In the Illinois state congress, he has mainly votes of present (no vote) as a record.

Lisa: It kind of makes me laugh that either side would balk at a VP Candidate they have no intention of voting for anyway. It never is a deciding factor if your mind is made up before the VP is chosen anyway. Palin is just being used as an excuse to argue and sling a little mud. Which would have been done regardless of who was named.

mommy monica---so then had he picked someone else you'd be voting for McCain?

I wouldn't have voted for McCain, BUT I would have had more respect for him had he pick someone that made more sense. Why not ask Condi Rice? Before the primaries ever started, I told my wife that I would be able to deal with McCain as President, but after seeing the way he's run this campaign, I am now very anti-McCain. Let me use this analogy: If this was baseball, he went from being the Lovable Losers (Chicago Cubs), to being the Evil Empire (New York Yankees).

Condi would have hurt McCain as much as Palin, given her closeness to Bush and many of the poor policy decisions Bush has made.

He was a community organizor, law proffesor, state senator, and US senator. Plus he has proven that he is even mannered and reasonable. And he was against the Iraq war. He can speak to people and look them in the eye. He can actually claim that he is attempting to change Washington, he didn't just steal the slogan. And he has he exact same amount of executive experience as McCain so... that is why I am voting for him.Plus McCain rubs me the wrong way.He is arrogant and rude, and frankly he creeps me out. Hearing him speak is like nails on a chalkboard.

Mommy Monica: God Bless the USA that two people can have exact opposite views and live side by side:-)

I already spoke to his state senate time. If you call that "experience" good for you, you can give the benefit of doubt to him on that. I already spoke to what being a law professor would qualify him for in my book. community organizer? Which of his responsibilities as a community organizer, in your opinion, automatically qualifies him to be president? As for US Senator, that is definately a qualifier, but only after a few years. I will not comment on the plus sentence because it would probably come out catty and be of little benefit.

McCain rubs me the wrong way.He is arrogant and rude, and frankly he creeps me out. Hearing him speak is like nails on a chalkboard.

My personal feelings about Obama. Like I said, God Bless America!

1. Voted for increase of funding for preschools and welfare to work programs.
2. Voted in support of equal pay for equal days work.
3.MOST IMPORTANT- he voted AGAINST the war in Iraq.

And- he is for a women's right to choose.

Look what I get for writing before I drink my morning coffee. I will re-state point 3

3. Most importantly. He stood against the Iraq war, and once he was in the Senate continually stood by his point of view, voting against the troop surge. He didn't flip flop under political pressure. Hope this clarifies.

I would like to point out...Yes the troop surge was very successful but the war should have never started in the first place IMHO.

just a speech

" . . . and 'change' you can xerox . . ."

Sorry, couldn't help myself, was one of the better lines, IMO.  

but the war should have never started in the first place

Okay, but one can't go back.  For ALL of the talk about looking forward, people sure love to look back on this one.  I was a republican that preferred not to go to Iraq.  Too late for that to matter at the point of the surge . . . or after we set the first boot on the ground.

We had to overwhelm the enemy, otherwise we were easy fodder.  The surge was the right thing to do.  BO was wrong.