Oh Fred, Fred. Wherefore Art Thou Fred Thompson?

lisa:

Look. I actually LIKE his wife Jeri and although I'm a guy and therefore indulge in treehouse talk sometimes featuring her embonpoint, I've heard her speak and she's sharp and knowledgable. I mean, when Fred met her she was in Washington working for the RNC, not in Hollywood or New York working for NBC television.

But the fact is, she's an amateur at running campaigns. James Carville when he won with Clinton in '92 had already run huge upset-victory Senate campaign in a major state, PA. Jeri has never run a campaign for city council, let alone President, and running a campaign like this is no job for a first-timer. Too many tiny mistakes accumulate, too many decisions delayed, too many details forgotten .... it adds up to a campaign stuck in neutral.

lisa:

I've been a huge fan of Mary's since the day before the '92 election, and if Fred had brought her on board and put her in charge from Jump Street he might be better positioned now .... but maybe not ...

LOL. Until the Gore campaign (and later Kerry's) came along Mary Matalin's previous claim to fame (other than sleeping her way to the top) was in running the theretofore worst campaign in modern American history in the form of 41's.

Bill:

In the waning days of 41's losing campaign, all the guys who were supposed to be running it, including that slimebag William Kristol, scampered to quiet safety, cheapshotting each other and their candidate anonymously as they ran for the hills and away from the stain of losing.

That left a low-ranking deputy press officer to deal with the national media vultures and sharks and to stand up for the candidate in the face of looming disaster. That was Mary Matalin. That gal showed more guts in those two days than all the guys running Bush 41's campaign combined have in their entire lives.

Low-ranking deputy press officer? Hell, she was Chief of Staff to Lee Atwater at the RNC and effectively ran it while he was dying:

In 1992, President Bush named her the deputy campaign manager for political operations. As deputy campaign manager, she was responsible for the overview and organization of all 50 state operations. As the on-board planner who traveled with President Bush throughout the 1992 campaign, she emerged as the vocal, and occasionally controversial, defender of the president and his policies.

Bill:

Yeah so I got confused about what Bush '92 "deputy-ized" her for.

My point stands. The big guys scampered off like the rodents they are while Matalin was, well, I'd say "stand up guy" but she's not a guy. Whatever the gender appropriate term for "stand up guy" is, she was.

Funny, but I've always found her particularly physically repulsive in the same way some find Coulter, i.e., mannish. She's vastly overrated and I stand by my original comments (including the part about her sleeping her way to the top).

Bill:

Well, that sounds like you've got some Beltway cocktail gossip.

Who was her mentor as she embarked on her successful career in national politics?

lisa:

So let me disagree, then. Some elections, Kennedy/Nixon, Gore/Bush, could go either way, others the times dictate the outcome, Stevenson/Eisenhower, Reagan/Carter.

Bush 41, I feel, ran with the times in '88 but against the times in '92.

But you're right about the fire in the belly, although that's more a factor in the nomination, as with Fred, than in a general election.

Lisa, Mary Matalin was a fiasco for GHWB because she was emotionaly involved with Carville.

Karl is involved again but I don't know to whom he is tilting. Another thing Pick a boo knows Dick Morris very well, Pab said that Dick is not involved but look at the rocketing lately.

lisa:

Actually, for all his popular numbers, Perot didn't change the outcome. Montana and just maybe Georgia switched Electoral College columns because of Perot.

Right, they are two different things. He is lackluster and that's incongruous when compared to the candidates in both parties.

I'm afraid the problem is not with his campaign being ineffective or not well-oiled, both of which are arguably true. However, Huckabee is running with a very sparse shop and doing quite well.

lisa,

Fred is Fred and looks tired.

Lisa, of all the GOP cadidates Thompson is the only one to talk sensibly and realistically about the issues like entitlement reform. There's also his idea of a voluntary flat tax that bears serious consideration but is doomed by the usual coalition of liberals who want to raise taxes and the K Street crowd who make a living off of gaining loopholes for their clients.

Heh...so what would it take for you to believe that Rudy is corrupt? The scandals are very real, based on real issues.

Really? If it was kosher, why the creative accounting, Lisa? And how many wives has Rudy had? Why did Rudy's lady use the NYPD as her chauffeur when she was alone?

And Kerik is Rudy's best friend--what a nightmare for Rudy.

But then, I've learned to not expect Repubs to hold their own to the same standards they hold others to.

The Kerik issue is really just breaking. Creative accouting isn't needed if it is on the up and up. I can only imagine the howls coming from your camp if it were, say, Edwards involved in the scandal Rudy is.

As for Rudy not making it this far, he's falling--what is he, 4th in Iowa?

do you think the secret service layed down (no pun intended) when Clinton was up to his shenanigans?

BTW, the kerik bit is so yesterday.

Well, I must say you have left me slack-jawed.

Giuliani's baggage is doing him in, Lisa. The man is corrupt and not well liked amongst those who worked with him as mayor.

SB--This just proves that Repubs don't care about any scandals on their side, all they care about is that (R) next to the candidate's name.

Rudy is having some problems right now but to me it's all a bunch of either liberal or romney camp spin

Wow, have you read a single story about what he's accused of doing?

There's always a way to excuse Repubs, I guess.

If the 2008 ballot comes down to Rudi vs Hillary (which I believe it will -despite what happens in hog country), there's defintely no Clinton advantage in morality.

Rudi is not responsible for the actions of Kerik; just as any of us are not responsible for any criminal actions those we may know or have associated with may commit.

Rudy was in a business partnership with Kerik. I tend to think that he had at least some idea of what Kerik was up to.

What moral issues does Clinton have? Standing by her husband? Yeah, she and Bill could be like many Repubs, on their third + spouses.

It seems to be "resonating" just fine, some polls have Rudy losing a quarter of his support in this past week alone.

Rudy criminalized himself and he's no one's hero. What exactly did he do on 9/11 to earn that title? Place the heart of operations in right in the biggest target? Dare Al Queda to try again (as he did in '93?) Run around and look for cameras to mug before?

The proof is in the pudding--those who worked in the NYFD and NYPD dislike Rudy intensely.

TJG,

Rudi did a lot more than Hill lying to the press that her daughter was in danger.

What would you do better than hjim if you are Rudy w/a 9/11/01 in/on your hands?

Chapter, Verse and Page, please, with details.

Well, first off, I would not have taunted Al Queda to try again back in 1993, I would not have located the command center in the WTC complex and I would have done more than look for a camera to follow me. I wouldn't have alienated the firemen and police prior to 9/11. You realize that had Rudy not located the emergency command center in the WTC complex that fewer might have died? Had he worked on getting radios and communication tools that would work in all squads?

How dare Hillary be concerned about her daughter! Darn her family worries! She should have a relationship with Chelsea like Rudy does with his kids, who said they wouldn't vote for him.

Your turn, Det. Please tell me, chapter and verse, what Rudy actually *did* on 9/11 to make him a hero. What he did beforehand to make emergencies handle better?

Rudy was in a business partnership with Kerik. I tend to think that he had at least some idea of what Kerik was up to.

To The Jones Girl

If you read the indictment of specific alleged charges against Kerik, they involve criminal activity that really only benefits him, in a personal way (other than those running the buisnesses involved, and no one has charged Giuliani has any connection with any of these businesses).

Would you think it fair to also say the Clintons had at least some idea of what Norman Hsu was up to?

Democratic Fundraiser Hsu Indicted in NY

NEW YORK -- Top Democratic fundraiser Norman Hsu swindled investors out of millions of dollars and made illegal donations to the political campaigns of congressional and presidential candidates, including Hillary Clinton, prosecutors said.

Probably not.

What moral issues does Clinton have? Standing by her husband? Yeah, she and Bill could be like many Repubs, on their third + spouses.

My opinion is Hillary is still with Bill only because she needs him for her political aspirations.

The name Hillary Rodham is not a vote-getter

Your opinion on another's marriage is dandy, but means little. I personally think what the Clintons did is more honorable than running to divorce court, like Rudy. And isn't one of the complaints about Clinton that he is a proven womanizer? If marrying four times and having mistresses isn't proof of the same for Rudy, I don't know what is...perhaps if he recieved a BJ in his office you guys would care?

Rudy was Kerik's business partner. I doubt that he was not aware of Kerik's activities, but feel free to spin away and make excuses. Hsu wasn't Clinton's business partner and close friend, just a donor. And she gave back the money. Rudy makes excuses. Some leader he is!

And Lisa, what were the results of the suits that were brought against Clinton?

I just love watching you defend Rudy's actions when they are so similar to what Clinton did. I guess the most important thing to some is that (R) next to the person's name, it seems to excuse a multitude of sins!

Once a cheater, always a cheater, if I were Rudy's current wife, I wouldn't be too comfortable that I would remain his only interest.

Federal Suit Accuses New York City of Not Acting on Harassment Complaints in Workfare Jobs; July 15, 2001

...I think this information maybe relevant to voters...

Your opinion on another's marriage is dandy, but means little

That's true...it's just my opinion...means little...

Rudy was Kerik's business partner. I doubt that he was not aware of Kerik's activities

now that's just your opinion...means little... =)

Heh...even if it were, Thompson is the weakest part of that show.

Jerry Orbach '08! (yes, I know he isn't with the living).

TJG,

Chuckle. And, at the very least Jerry had better one liners too... even from the grave. ;-D

I was going to say that even at present, Jerry has more personality than Fred, but didn't want to be tacky :p

John McCain will not give up. He's going all the way to the Convention.

He didn't give up when he was in the North Vietnamese POW camp!

I'm sure he won't give up any time soon. But he's also seeing his chances slip quickly away.

Should I assume then that you will stick with the current tax yourself?

I'm still trying to figure out what conservative Republicans find enticing about Huckabee. He raised his hand to say he doesn't believe in evolution, wants a nationwide ban on smoking in public and launched a completely uncalled for and despicable attackon Mitt Romney's religious background. I sure as hell don't want another Baptist preacher in the WH. One was enough. The guy's a prick dressed up in aw shucks garb.

He ain't likeable to me. The guy's got a mean streak a mile wide and I don't want any Bible-thumpin' non-believer in evolution in the WH.

Should I assume then that you will stick with the current tax yourself?

Don't have much choice now, do I? But seriously, I haven't seen a credible alternative yet, on either side of the aisle. US taxation is complicated. "Fixing" it is complicated. Simplistic, politically attractive, soundbites are not going to be the solution.

and I don't want any Bible-thumpin' non-believer in evolution in the WH.

Bill,

Sounds like you didn't vote for GWB!!!

Why should he take up the mantle when he's done enough to keep him on the talkinghead circuit for until decides to retire? Between paid punditry and speaking engagements (those conventioneers ain't gonna pontificate themselves you know...) ol' Fred is gonna make a mint; a lot more than the President makes.

Fred Thompson is not avaricious for power.

Remember Shakespeare's Tragedies of Othello and Richard III or even the historical play Julius Caesar?

Do we really want a president with the qualities of Iago, Richard III, or Cassius, someone with that lean and hungry look, with an overweening desire to be the POTUS?

Or Lady Macbeth?

who will play Aunt Bee? Hillary? Ha ha....!

Only if rolling in dough is training to make pies!

Thanks lisaed. I just sent you a friend request, my first ever! I agree with what you say about the 3's: it's a flaw in the modern democratic system that people who should be president usually have better sense than to run in the first place, or, to put it another way, there's a huge difference between campaigning and presiding. Things have to get pretty bad before a country shows enough sense to do what would be good for it.

What experience does any Repub contender have?

TJG

We know what each of the Republicans candidates have, do you know yours? I hope so.

Giuliani – Mayor NYC on 9-11

And that provides what experience, Lisa? Without using a national tragedy for political gain, Rudy would have zippo.

What legislation did Fred pass or propose while in the Senate?

Sure, Mitt was governor, but what did he do then to qualify him? Same with Huckabee--what foreign relations experience do they, or any of the Repubs have?

Yes, I am sure that the candidates' own websites aren't biased at all. I'm asking simple questions of what you see as their experience.

TJG, you question was answered, you just don't like the answer. My bet is because it dwarfs the Dem's experience.

Actually, the question was dodged, I asked for her opinion. Telling me to go to the candidate's sites is like telling someone to google something. A non-answer.

I have no fear of the Repub candidates...they are all either nuts, scandal-ridden or both.

and I was talking about her answer to your question.

Since I don't expect you will be voting in the Republican primary I really have little to no interest in your opinion of the Republican Candidates. Probably even less interest then you do in my opinion of the scandal ridden nutty Dem candidates.

She listed a bunch of dates of their terms, hardly a response.

What scandals are you referring to in the Dem candidates? And for one who doesn't care about my opinions, why respond to me? That alone proves you care.

You seem quite touchy about anyone outside the party questioning your candidates. Could it be because you know in your heart that you have no one who will resonate with the moderates in 2008?

you have made this thread more difficult to read. I do not care about your opinion tho. but if you feel that I have proven to care well...

Yawn

Oops, started to fall asleep there. As for the scandals of the Dem candidates, please have patience, once the looney Left (the base that tends to vote in primaries) has spoken and the actual race begins there will be plenty of time for that then.

Oh, and you asked what experience these people had. She answered you. Deal with it.

you have made this thread more difficult to read

How dare I pop in and ask questions and have a differing opinion, right, DA?

So you have no scandals to point to....on the Rep side, I can point to Kerik, the mistress scandal, Huckabee pardoning a rapist, Mitt's flip-flops. Good luck in '08, no wonder you sound bitter. I would too, with your candidate pool :)

on the Rep side, I can point to

Who cares what you point to? You aren't going to vote for or against any of these till the presidential election and we have a primary before that happens.
As to you being allowed to post a question here, you certainly are. I am allowed to point out that your question has been answered as well. I cannot stop you from being annoying or from trolling here. I am not worried about '08, but I sense some concern from you.

So you have no scandals to point to

Funny, but anyone that can read can clearly see that you are attempting to put words in my mouth here. Why? Are you afraid of something?

no wonder you sound bitter

Funny, I haven't made a sound...

Good luck in '08

Thanks!

Your response, when I asked about Dem scandals was "just wait." Which leads me to think you have nothing.

Your problem is that you see other points of view and asking questions as "trolling."

And again, with all your fuss, you seem to care a great deal. Otherwise, why the fuss and time spent typing responses? If you think that many out there don't have the same concerns as me, you are in for a shock at the polls, DA. Why is the most popular Repub running "None of the Above?"

Your problem is that you see other points of view and asking questions as "trolling."

Actually I referred to your comments where you began harrassing Lisaed AFTER she answered you as trolling.

why the fuss and time spent typing responses

Had some time to kill before a meeting.
I put no faith at all in polls that include dems when asking about republican primary candidates. Easy for you to claim that by the way. I would bet you have nothing to back it up tho.
Why are you so concerned with the republican candidates at this point?

I have an interest in politics...and whom the Repubs are liking and not liking. Is that OK with you?

I wasn't harrassing anyone, I just wanted a real answer, not a recitation of numbers or an invitation to visit a website.

And there's plenty to back up my view that people are sick of Repubs--look at polls on various issues.

So if you put no faith in these polls, does that mean you have no faith in Lisa's questions above?

TJG

Friendly antagonist, polls are a joke and serve the purposes of those that are selling their dear candidates.

determined0a1, you are most correct

Unless the poll is trumpeting that the Repub candidates could beat Hillary, right?

Then you guys race to agree with it.

not because the poll said it but because we happen to believe it to be true. there is a difference.

So you admit to cherry-picking your polls. How interesting.

No I said that on occasion a poll might come out that we agree with. You seem to have a bit of trouble with your reading comprehension. Personally I think you are compensating for something.

Personal attacks. Just what I expect from you, DA.

A - thought you were ignoring me. not very good at it are you.

B - What personal attack.

Rudy was there for the New Yorkers and of course that facing the music in NYC in a tragedy outlines the future performance of a President.

What did he specifically DO that was heroic? Simply being mayor and looking good isn't much of anything. What "music" did he face? What did he do that any other person as mayor wouldn't have done? Please answer with specifics.

Hmmm, let's see: Katrina: knocked out infrastructure over a large area and lasted many days. 9/11: occurred in a small area, contained and lasted one day. So, what did Rudy do exactly? Why are you and Det dancing around a specific answer, Lisa? That to me is very telling. We are talking about what Rudy specifically did that was heroic/out of the ordinary on 9/11. Surely, a hero's actions should be easy to list.

Rudy was there for the New Yorkers and of course that facing the music in NYC in a tragedy outlines the future performance of a President.

I believe you are right...

Again, Det, I see no specifics as to what Rudy did that was heroic, just a bunch of complaints about Dems. If you have nothing on the topic, admit it. You're supporting an empty suit that bases his success on America's biggest tragedy. Fantastic qualifications!

9/11 happened 9 months into Bush's presidency. Clinton's staff (and Clinton) warned the incoming admin that something might be afoot, Bush chose to ignore the warnings. Why was Bush on vacation 7 months into his presidency?

And I will remind you that the first WTC attack in '93 occurred with less time into Clinton's first term, yet his admin managed to try and jail those responsible. What did Bush do after 9/11? Oh, yes, he lied us into Iraq, a war with no plan and no point. OBL is still at large.

Again, if you have any specific deeds that Rudy did which were heroic, I'd love to see it. Or do you simply have another rant about Dems?

Of course, increasing the taxes is very scary.

Well, do you prefer Bush's credit card spending leadership? Biggest expansion of the government since WWII. Better to pay for it now with taxes.

What any of your candidates did heroic that they deserve my vote?

I'm not claiming that any of my candidates are heroes, but the Right tosses that label onto Rudy at every turn. And again, you aren't answering my question, but deflecting it. Point taken, Rudy is a hero to the Right in rhetoric only.

He stood up? All I remember is him pandering to the cameras. If he was so great, why do so many in the fire and police departments detest him and his actions on 9/11?

His location of the command center, bullying tone in the 90s and so on, impeded us on 9/11.

Oh, dear.

TV cameras follow even the chasing cars by the police. Paris Hilton's drama when in jail and tell me about the death of Anna Nicole. Rudy did not hired them.

I guess my definition of heroic is more than "appeared on camera and made a speech."

Much like Nazi and like words, the word hero is over and mis-used.

Not sure why you are brining up Nazis. you thinking about Bill?

I don't know where you would get that. It was an analogy of an overused, now meaningless word.

Thanks for reminding me to put you on ignore, DA.

Interesting that you think the word 'nazi' is a meaningless word. I don't think you believe that.

As for putting me on ignore. Hallelujah!!!

now lets see if you can stick to it...

Actually, Rudy may have harmed himself with the speech, his staffers didn't want him to give it. And as the AP article mentioned, he has to overcome his image of a flip-flopper.

TJG

We know how close to the truth AP is.

About the polls. Remember, Kerry was winning until 7 p.m. in the last Presidential elections, the polls were giving to him the crown, just too soon. Until the last chad/pregnant or sunshine is counted is questionable predict who will be.

The AP was quoting people in Mitt's campaign, Det.

Face it, your field has issues, big issues to overcome. Not that the Dems are perfect, but you guys have to overcome Bush and many, many scandals.

TJG

It's called political "strategery". Say something negative and the rest is history.

Face it, your field has issues, big issues to overcome.

Really? I did not notice.

Not that the Dems are perfect, but you guys have to overcome Bush and many, many scandals.

If those scandals don't touch the close to my heart, I can't suffer or cry.

All have glass houses.

Those scandals show what sort of person, if not leader, the candidate is.

So you agree that the Hsu scandal effects hillary rotten clinton...

She gave the money back.

not to mention the 'untraceable dontations' from the laundry working chinese.

The clintonista's LOL

...hmmmm, a mini-library of scores... Uhm, not so much... lisa doesn't review her copy...

Could your opinion be influenced by partisan stance?